Rabbi Heschel wrote that the Bible is fundamentally a record of G-d's approach to humanity rather than merely a human search for the divine. In his view, G-d experiences "pathos" involvement with humanity and actively longs for a relationship with us, making our seeking of Him both our concern and His.
Good discussion topic. There was a lot that went wrong when the human portion of these women came into play. Hagar did not have options due to her status, and she was likely very aware of the personalities involved. Had anyone ever really considered that she was in a no win situation?
Slaves and servants that disobeyed were likely doomed to beatings, death, high levels of physical abuse, the potential to be ostracized and left to die. Which eventually did happen.
It has certainly been easy for theologians to sit in buildings and condemn the situation without being female, a slave or being nomads in a desert environment.
I really look forward to your posts, as I learn from them and also learn from the way you present them, it is engaging.
I have a question relevant to this portion of Scripture that you may have insight about. Yeshua gives a new name of Peter to Simon, God to Abram and Sarai, etc. so I really want such things to indicate authority over the person given the new name. But then Hagar is often used as a counterexample that naming does not necessarily indicate authority. In following this rabbit trail, it seems that the use of "call" and "name" is a Hebrew naming formula (this is not new with me, but I agree with it) and along with this if just the word "call" is used, it is like a nickname.
Now my big question: When Hagar gives a name/nickname to God in ISV Gen 16:13 So she called the name of LORD who spoke to her, "You are 'God who sees,' because I have truly seen the one who looks after me." it seems there are 2 ways to parse this as "the name of the LORD" can be used as a way to refer to God as well as just LORD. If one parses it in the 1st way, then the word "name" is not seen as something Hagar does, so it is not using the Hebrew naming formula, but in the other way to parse it, "name" is something Hagar does. Any insights? Thanks.
And thank you for the question. I think this is one of those places where the Hebrew leaves room for discussion. The Hebrew literally says, "and she called the name of the LORD..." and the Tanakh actually shows this by connecting shem ("name") with the LORD (but it uses the tetragrammaton) not with the verb "called." That's one reason translations can differ so much.
I don't think she's renaming God in the same way God renames Abram, Sarai, or Jacob. Those are covenantal acts of authority. Hagar isn't changing God's identity. She's responding to revelation by recognizing who He has revealed Himself to be.
That's why I was careful in the article to say Hagar is the first person recorded as addressing God with a new title… to avoid confusion.
I like the phrase "leaves room for discussion" as it does not indicate some slam dunk mistake in either direction. Faithful people can think differently. Thanks.
It was only after Hagar started treating Sarai with contempt that this started. I think Hagar felt like she had a greater standing than Sarai since she was able to give Abraham a child. She was pregnant for like 5 minutes before she started thinking she was better than Sarai. LOL
I guess my focus was still on Sarai. And, like you said, it only took 5 minutes for Sarai to change her focus from the promised child to that awful woman!
I read somewhere, maybe it's a part of Jewish lore, that Hagar (once an Egyptian princess) came back and had 6 sons with Abraham. And maybe her name was changed to Keturah? Or maybe Keturah is someone else completely? Is there a definitive answer?
Nevertheless, you bring out some interesting points about water and wells that I'll bet very few are aware exist. Thanks!
Great question! The Bible itself never says Hagar and Keturah are the same person. In Genesis, Hagar appears as Sarah's Egyptian slave, while Genesis 25 introduces Keturah simply as the woman Abraham took after Sarah's death and who bore him six sons.
Now, there is some speculation in Jewish tradition about them being the same person but that is pure speculation and scripture never indicates that. Since Genesis 25:1 says that “Abraham took another wife….” it appears to be a separate person because he had already taken Hagar as a wife earlier on. Also, Ishmael is not mentioned alongside Keturah’s children named there and is listed alongside Isaac instead. In verse 12 it specifically names Ishmael as Hagar’s child so if Hagar and Keturah were the same person, it surely would have specified that.
Rabbi Heschel wrote that the Bible is fundamentally a record of G-d's approach to humanity rather than merely a human search for the divine. In his view, G-d experiences "pathos" involvement with humanity and actively longs for a relationship with us, making our seeking of Him both our concern and His.
Love that!
Thank you, Diane, for more on Hagar. I was especially intrigued by the significance of the well, and of God's use of wells as places of encounter.
I didn’t forget you!
Have you ever seen Camille Corot’s Hagar in the Wilderness? It’s not exactly faithful to the text but reflects the spirit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagar_in_the_Wilderness
YOU ARE PHENOMENAL! I READ EVERY WORD OF YOUR EVERY POST. THANK YOU, THANK YOU! 🙏🙏🙏
Was just dwelling on this yesterday. This is so good ♥️
Good discussion topic. There was a lot that went wrong when the human portion of these women came into play. Hagar did not have options due to her status, and she was likely very aware of the personalities involved. Had anyone ever really considered that she was in a no win situation?
Slaves and servants that disobeyed were likely doomed to beatings, death, high levels of physical abuse, the potential to be ostracized and left to die. Which eventually did happen.
It has certainly been easy for theologians to sit in buildings and condemn the situation without being female, a slave or being nomads in a desert environment.
I really look forward to your posts, as I learn from them and also learn from the way you present them, it is engaging.
I have a question relevant to this portion of Scripture that you may have insight about. Yeshua gives a new name of Peter to Simon, God to Abram and Sarai, etc. so I really want such things to indicate authority over the person given the new name. But then Hagar is often used as a counterexample that naming does not necessarily indicate authority. In following this rabbit trail, it seems that the use of "call" and "name" is a Hebrew naming formula (this is not new with me, but I agree with it) and along with this if just the word "call" is used, it is like a nickname.
Now my big question: When Hagar gives a name/nickname to God in ISV Gen 16:13 So she called the name of LORD who spoke to her, "You are 'God who sees,' because I have truly seen the one who looks after me." it seems there are 2 ways to parse this as "the name of the LORD" can be used as a way to refer to God as well as just LORD. If one parses it in the 1st way, then the word "name" is not seen as something Hagar does, so it is not using the Hebrew naming formula, but in the other way to parse it, "name" is something Hagar does. Any insights? Thanks.
Thank you! That really encourages me. 😊
And thank you for the question. I think this is one of those places where the Hebrew leaves room for discussion. The Hebrew literally says, "and she called the name of the LORD..." and the Tanakh actually shows this by connecting shem ("name") with the LORD (but it uses the tetragrammaton) not with the verb "called." That's one reason translations can differ so much.
I don't think she's renaming God in the same way God renames Abram, Sarai, or Jacob. Those are covenantal acts of authority. Hagar isn't changing God's identity. She's responding to revelation by recognizing who He has revealed Himself to be.
That's why I was careful in the article to say Hagar is the first person recorded as addressing God with a new title… to avoid confusion.
I like the phrase "leaves room for discussion" as it does not indicate some slam dunk mistake in either direction. Faithful people can think differently. Thanks.
It’s interesting that Hagar was treated so badly by Sarai, who apparently believe that the promised son would come to Abram and Sarai through Hagar. 🤔
Jesus, another Promised One, was treated the same way by His very own people. 😢
But El Roi sees it all! 🙌
It was only after Hagar started treating Sarai with contempt that this started. I think Hagar felt like she had a greater standing than Sarai since she was able to give Abraham a child. She was pregnant for like 5 minutes before she started thinking she was better than Sarai. LOL
And yes, He does see it all!!
Good point!
I guess my focus was still on Sarai. And, like you said, it only took 5 minutes for Sarai to change her focus from the promised child to that awful woman!
I read somewhere, maybe it's a part of Jewish lore, that Hagar (once an Egyptian princess) came back and had 6 sons with Abraham. And maybe her name was changed to Keturah? Or maybe Keturah is someone else completely? Is there a definitive answer?
Nevertheless, you bring out some interesting points about water and wells that I'll bet very few are aware exist. Thanks!
Great question! The Bible itself never says Hagar and Keturah are the same person. In Genesis, Hagar appears as Sarah's Egyptian slave, while Genesis 25 introduces Keturah simply as the woman Abraham took after Sarah's death and who bore him six sons.
Now, there is some speculation in Jewish tradition about them being the same person but that is pure speculation and scripture never indicates that. Since Genesis 25:1 says that “Abraham took another wife….” it appears to be a separate person because he had already taken Hagar as a wife earlier on. Also, Ishmael is not mentioned alongside Keturah’s children named there and is listed alongside Isaac instead. In verse 12 it specifically names Ishmael as Hagar’s child so if Hagar and Keturah were the same person, it surely would have specified that.
I have been Hagar within my own birth family. God has seen me and has blessed me richly.
Toda! The wells are so enlightening. YHVH is a Masterful provider.
Shalom Aleichem